Julianna: Hey everyone, thanks for joining Sweat Equity. I’m your host, Julianna Vitolo, and I’m joined here today by the CEO and Founder of Cofertility, Lauren Makler. Thank you so much for hosting us in your beautiful house.
Lauren: Thanks for coming.
Julianna: I wish I could say it’s sunny Los Angeles.
Lauren: I know. Normally it is. It. It’s “June gloom”.
Julianna: Yeah. Every time I’m in LA, by the way, it’s like this.
Lauren: You bring it with you.
Julianna: Yeah, I do.
Lauren: No, it’s usually beautiful, but yeah, this is where the magic happens. It’s the beauty of working remote.
Julianna: Yeah. So office, home, everything all in one.
Lauren: Yeah. Everyone at Cofertility works remotely and I think that it’s something that, when you start a company that way, I think it’s built into the culture and the ethos and the “how we work.” It’s a lot easier to do it that way rather than trying to start in-office and then go remote, right? Or to be hybrid and then switch.
So, it’s worked really well for us. It’s just part of how we do things. And for me having, you know, a 4-year-old and, and an almost 1-year-old, it means that I get to like be really present in one part of my life or the other, and I don’t have to worry about a long commute in between.
Julianna: Mm. That’s amazing as someone with a long commute, I totally understand that can really break up your day, so it’s nice to have that extra time.
Lauren: Sometimes I like to walk around the block in between, like, you know, just to context switch a little bit.
Julianna: Change of scenery
Lauren: Yes. But I feel very grateful that, you know, I mean I breastfed this baby all year, and could do that and not interrupt my work. Which is amazing.
Julianna: That is an incredible thing. I should level set too, so I’ve known Lauren for a couple years now. I used to work at Initialized Capital and we led her Seed.
Lauren: That was three and a half years ago.
Julianna: Yeah, wow that’s crazy. Time flies.
Lauren: Yeah.
Julianna: But, yes, so we’ve known each other for some time and I am so grateful that she’s not only hosting us in our house, but has agreed to sit down with me today to chat all things Cofertility.
Lauren: Totally.
Julianna: So I think a great place to start actually would be to kind of level set, give a high-level description of what the company is, what you guys are all about, the mission. Everything that someone would want to know if they’re coming in cold and don’t know anything about Cofertility.
Lauren: So at Cofertility we offer women the opportunity to freeze their eggs for free when they donate half of the eggs retrieved to intended parents that can’t otherwise conceive.
So, we are both making egg freezing more accessible and egg donation less transactional at the same time. What we found is that we know the best time to freeze your eggs is typically when you can least afford it, and when no one’s talking to you about it, right? The younger you are, the more, you know, fertile essentially, right?
Like the greater your egg quantity, the greater your egg quality, and that’s the opportunity to, you know, take advantage of that. And yet cost is the number one barrier for most women. And then on the other side, we have intended parents who, you know, more and more people are choosing to start their families later, and as such, they really struggle to conceive with fertility challenges – maybe age-related diminished ovarian reserve, or more same sex couples are growing their family through third party reproduction, and they need the help of an egg donor to have a baby.
And we knew that, you know, it’s incredibly transactional. If you look at what the traditional egg donation looks like, donors are getting paid anywhere from $10,000 to, we heard last week, $250,000 in cash compensation to freeze their eggs.
And that’s actually off-putting to most women that intended parents would be interested in getting eggs from.
And it’s obviously off putting to intended parents because it’s cost prohibitive. It also really feels unfair that someone can get more in cash compensation depending on their heritage or their education.
And that’s really challenging for intended parents. So, there’s a major lack of diversity amongst egg donors. And there’s a huge lack of educated and really ambitious donors in the traditional egg donation space. And so, we found that by bringing to bear this solution that we call egg sharing, we’re really solving the issue on both sides.
So, with Cofertility, since we launched our split program that we pitched you in, you know, the end of 2021, we brought that to life. And what we found is that it works. I remember the biggest question the seed investors had was, “Will women do this?”
And you were like, “Yeah, I think so, like for sure they will.”
And we had data, we had done a survey to support that hypothesis. And the answer is a huge resounding yes. Our donors – 55% of them have a graduate degree or higher. They are super ambitious, really educated, just prioritizing other things in their life that, you know, maybe aren’t having a child yet, right?
And 50% of them identify as women of color. So they are really diverse and it’s just delivering on what intended parents are really looking for in an egg donor.
Julianna: Wow, that’s incredible. And so talk to me about the fact that you guys are kind of targeting this class of women who… what are the typical age ranges? Something you said really impacted me. I think knowing that most women aren’t thinking about it until it’s past their peak fertility, or the time when they actually should be freezing their eggs. How do you address that? Is it educating earlier, or what do you notice?
Lauren: Well, what’s interesting is that that has changed, right? So, there was actually a study done last year that said three in five Gen Z women are concerned about their fertility.
Julianna: Wow
Lauren: So, that’s women, I think it’s 18 to 28 today, are already concerned about their fertility. And I attribute that to millennials. You’re welcome. And even Gen X right? For talking about our challenges more, and for bringing it out on social media and you know, telling your coworkers, “Hey, I had a miscarriage”, right?
Like, this is hard, right? It is not always, you know, rainbows and butterflies when you’re trying to have a baby. And, I think that that has made Gen Z much more aware than previous generations. And so, I think, I thought that we’d have to do a lot of educating about the benefits of egg freezing. And I am pleasantly surprised that we don’t need to do as much of that as I thought.
Right? I think more and more women understand, “oh, egg freezing”, right? Like, this is not an insurance policy, not a guarantee, but the people who do freeze eggs have more of an opportunity to have children later in life than people who don’t. That’s just the way that it works. They might need education about how egg freezing works, or what the process is like, but they don’t really need it on the like, “Hey, you should really do this.”
Julianna: Yeah. At what age are people typically thinking about this?
Lauren: So I think we find that they’re really starting to think about it in their mid twenties, late twenties and early thirties. To qualify for our split program, someone does need to meet the clinical criteria that’s set forth by ASRM, the American Society of Reproductive Medicine, to donate.
And so that requirement says, that she must be between the ages of 21 and 34, uh, just because after 34 you become less fertile, right? The egg quality goes down, and so it’s not necessarily fair to the intended parent to work with a donor that’s over the age of 34. And so, I think like really mid-to-late twenties is when we’re starting to have that conversation.
Julianna: Okay. Makes sense. And earlier you said you had evaluated or kind of sanity-checked that there was market demand for a solution like this. So can you talk more about how you went through that process?
Lauren: Yeah. This is something that like, you know, Halle, my co-founder, she is very much like, “I have an idea, let’s go do it.” And I love that about her. And in so many ways that quality has been something I’ve benefited from.
My inclination is like, let me see the data first. Like, let me just gut check this before I jump. And so, I think the two of us combined really were exactly what we needed to decide to go forward here.
We basically designed a survey that asked a number of questions about this age group and their understanding of egg freezing – what challenges were preventing them from moving forward with it, and whether or not egg sharing was something that appealed to them and how they would feel about it.
And we asked a handful of influencers on Instagram to post the Typeform to their Instagram stories. And within 24 hours we had almost a thousand responses.
Julianna: Wow.
Lauren: And 66% of women were interested in egg sharing. I kept refreshing it, I thought it was broken. It’s like, what? Like I couldn’t believe it.
Julianna: More than you even expected?
Lauren: Way more. I literally thought it was broken. I did not believe it. And then when I saw some of the qualitative responses, and I saw that cost is the number one barrier, I believed it and I realized that Gen Z, especially, believes that anyone who wants to be a parent deserves to be a parent.
And they believe in the sort of dynamic ways that families are built today, and the idea of doing service is very compelling. And, you know, 20% of Gen Z are members of LGBTQ community, right? So, they too may need the help of a third party to have a baby. So they are very open, and interested, and even excited to help someone else grow their family and to be a part of that.
And when we take anonymity out of egg donation – which is a lie anyway, right? Like you cannot have any donation, be anonymous in a time when DNA testing is something you can buy at a drugstore online. And when we address that early on, and intended parents and donors have the option and the opportunity to meet each other, then you’re really taking the stigma out of donation. And you’re making it feel like something that people are a lot more open-minded about.
Julianna: Why does this stigma exist for egg donation but not sperm donation, which is honestly very mainstream these days? It’s actually amazing to me. There’s no stigma behind it – at least, not to the same extent.
Lauren: Well, I think that there’s a few things, I think women feel a different sort of attachment – or perceived attachment, right? I think that’s part of it. I think there’s also the ease with which a man can donate sperm… I mean, they literally can pop into a room for 10 minutes and leave.
Whereas a woman has to undergo 10 to 14 days of shots and then go under anesthesia to do an egg retrieval. Like the actual work it takes is a lot more. But, I think that women are seen as giving something up, whereas men are seen as giving something. Right? It’s just yet another double standard that exists for men and women.
I think that part of it is… I think women fear the idea of what if…. and this is like the number one stigma that we hear. What if I’m walking down the street one day and I see someone who looks like me? Will I wonder if that’s the offspring that was born from this donation? And sort of akin to a closed adoption without knowing.
But what we feel is that if we are not doing anonymous donation and you have the opportunity to know the family and to opt into this and say, yes, those are the intended parents that I want to participate in this with. Then, they have a match meeting and they, you know, in some cases they send photos back and forth. Or just last week, one of our donors met the baby that was born from her donation, and she was so excited, and so moved, and she will know that child over time. And when she has kids someday, they will know that she donated eggs.
So, this idea that she could be walking down the street and not recognize that child is just a thing of the past. That is a thing of anonymity, which is just something that we wanna move away from in general.
Julianna: So, do you think more people are okay with that concept of knowingly donating – knowing that they will know a future offspring that is genetically related to them? That that has become increasingly okay with people?
Lauren: Yeah, they are. We believe in what’s called a mutual match. In the sense that, when an intended parent wants to match with a donor – we call them split members. But, when they want to match she gets information about them, to the extent that both sides are comfortable.
And if she doesn’t feel the match is right for her, then she can decline the match. And I think there’s so much power in that, right? She should have a say where her eggs go, right?
Traditional egg donation or egg banks, you donate your eggs and you’re like, “I don’t know who they’re going to.” So, if you do a cycle and 30 eggs are retrieved, those eggs are separated into lots of six.
That means that from one cycle, those 30 eggs can go to five families. And then, they’re asking you to do it five more times. And so, you could have eggs going to 25 families, and have no idea who those kids are, or anything about them. So, your children will have biological half siblings
With Cofertility, we’re saying, “Hey, meet this nice family or couple” – maybe they have one kid, maybe they have no kids, maybe they’ve been trying for 10 years. You have the opportunity to meet them over Zoom, or to email with them or whatever. And if you feel good about this donation, and if these are people that potentially you want to know, and maybe even know for the rest of your life, or exchange contacts with, then only say yes. It should be a full body like, “Yes, this is something I wanna do and these are the people I wanna do it with.”
I think that choice and that opt in is something that just gives people more power over this experience. And, it’s very rare that someone says, “hmm, I don’t feel good about that match.”
I’ll give you an example because I’m sure that’s your next question, like, “why would someone say no?”
Julianna: Yeah.
Lauren: I’m thinking of one match where the intended parents were people who very openly live a nomadic lifestyle. So, they spend like a couple months of every year in Australia and a couple months in Europe, and then they’re in different parts of the U.S. visiting family.
And the split member they matched with was like, “I think that’s really cool for them, but I can’t imagine what that’s like growing up. I think that could be really hard on a kid.”
And so, she matched with another set of intended parents that she was excited about, and then we found another split member who was like, “How cool is that? Like what a way to grow up.”
And what I realized with that, is…something my mom used to say about dating actually, which is that every pot has a cover.
I kind of feel that way here. You know, we have some single parents, and we’ve had split members be like, “I was raised by a single parent, and I had the most beautiful upbringing, and I want them to have that.” Whereas someone else might not be as comfortable with that. Right? And so, we put that choice in their hands and I think they feel better about it.
Julianna: And so have you ever encountered any ethical gray areas with the donation piece, specifically? Coming from a skeptic’s perspective, right? If I hear about the split program, and think about the ages at which women are able to donate. And then, I think about how often the cost is prohibitive to many people that would like to opt into a program like this, or at least to freeze their eggs, right? The cost of doing so might be a barrier. And so, you think of the split program as a way to kind of get over that hurdle. Then how do you address that?
Lauren: Like, is this coercive?
Julianna: Not directly… but I am curious how you would address that concern?
Lauren: I have been asked that so much more directly, and I invite the question. I invite it, like I’m here for it.
Of course we’ve thought about that, right? And what I say to that, is like, in what way is allowing someone to have access to their own eggs and free storage for up to 10 years, by the way, more coercive than paying someone $10,000 to $250,000 for their eggs. Right?
To me, if we believe that egg donation should exist, which maybe that’s the bigger question. Like do you think egg donation is coercive in and of itself? Right? My opinion is that every person, women especially, should have choice over their own body.
Julianna: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: And, if we are educating them, and providing them opportunities for informed consent, and providing them opportunities to say, “yes, this is something I want to do”, and doing a psych eval that confirms that they’re of sound mind making that decision, and no one is coercing them, then they deserve choice and autonomy over their own body.
And I think that anybody who questions whether or not that choice is coercive, is frankly paternalistic.
Right? Like you just don’t believe they have, not you… but they just don’t believe that they have choice over their own body.
Julianna: Totally.
Lauren: And so, I think that it gets scary when you’re offering someone $250K for their eggs, because that’s really hard to say no to, right?
Julianna: Yeah.
Lauren: But, access to your own frozen eggs and storing them for free for up to 10 years, to me, is not quite as hard to say no to if you don’t wanna do it, right? And so, we have women who…they actually did a segment on Cofertility, on the CBS Morning Show, and they spoke with donors and they asked about this question specifically. One of our slip members said to her, it was like an, “Oh, yes, I definitely am ready to do this. I wanna do this.” Like, no question for her.
And then, we had another slip member who said, it took me a month and a half to get to this answer. I wanted to be really sure, and I took my time to think about it. And she was like emotional about how proud she feels that she was able to do this for someone who now has twins, by the way.
Julianna: Awesome.
Lauren: And, every person is different, but I believe they deserve that choice.
And if we believe that again, anybody who wants to be a parent deserves to be a parent, then third party reproduction needs to exist. And so, my goal is to do it in the most ethical, thoughtful way possible, that honors the person donating, honors the recipient parents, and most of all, honors the donor conceived person that’s born from it.
And we pay a lot of attention to that. And there was a study out of Harvard Med School in 2021 that said, of the donor conceived people they spoke to, a majority of them felt disturbed that cash was exchanged for their genetics. And so, to me, this is a far more thoughtful approach, and that’s what we stand by.
Julianna: That’s amazing. And you’ve hit on so many points that I think are extremely topical, especially right now.
Lauren: Yes.
Julianna: Personal or Cofertility views – we’re living in an era where Roe v. Wade has been questioned. We’re on a state-by-state system now. The right to choose is being threatened, quite frankly. It’s not supported by the government any longer, across the board.
And so, I’d love to know your opinions, just about this state of affairs, and what it’s doing to that concept of giving women the right to choose, giving women that autonomy over their own bodies and their reproductive systems.
Lauren: I mean, more than anything, it makes me have even more conviction in what we’re doing and it gives me… like the fire under my tush. Right? Like, we gotta do this and we have to grow this company fast. Because I believe that the more people who make this choice now, the better suited they will be in the future.
And so, it certainly lights a fire under me and my entire team. But, it makes me, you know, want to help every founder who’s building in this space and to help them figure out which investors want to be on the right side of history, and want to invest in women’s health and reproductive rights, like companies.
I think there are so many founders out there that are building for the future of this space, and women’s health is just woefully underfunded.
And so, I think that our companies are the ones that can create change, and who are nimble enough to navigate this climate, right?
Like Cofertility, as an example… you know, in Alabama there was a shutdown of IVF, right? And we have the option and ability to like rework our cycles. And there was a hurricane in Florida, and we got our split members on planes, and they’ve never disrupted their cycles, right? So, god forbid something happens in a state where we lose access, we will still make things happen.
And so, I think that it’s more likely the scrappy, nimble startups that can navigate these things really quickly and make sh**t happen when we have to.
Julianna: Those are incredible stories, by the way.
I totally agree with you. I wonder how much of this is just more investment and more innovation in this space, and then how much of it we need to rely on some sort of regulatory change or regulatory support.
Lauren: Both. Totally both.
I feel lucky that there are a lot of people out there that are working to bring the operators into the regulatory conversations, right? So, there’s a group that got together this spring that was around like, what sort of policy should we be asking for? And, what sort of frameworks do we need to put in place to make it an environment that is friendly for women’s health organizations to build and exist.
So, we’re watching it closely, and trying to like, move things on multiple fronts. I think organizations like Resolve are working to lobby for the right kind of change that doesn’t just support people that are looking to build families with fertility challenges, but also LGBTQ families, right?
You know, it’s wild to me to hear that our president is pro-IVF – which is great – but what about the less traditional families? Right? I don’t really care about access to IVF unless it includes everybody.
And so, that’s something that I know Resolve is really fighting for and, as we want to help empower organizations like Resolve to do that on a really large scale.
Julianna: Mm-hmm. I think all these macro factors, and all these issues at large, are actually a huge benefit to the company too because you guys really did time it well, whether you meant to or not.
Some of it’s luck, some of it’s just a good sense that this is what the market needs at that given time. And so, I don’t know what your take is, but I do think a lot of these factors political, regulatory, and just environmental too – global fertility rates are declining – all of that is really a tailwind for the business.
Lauren: Tailwinds for sure. In the slide it says tailwind, right? Like absolutely.
You know, there was this stat that came out recently that said, more women had children this past year in their forties than in their teens.
Julianna: Oh my goodness.
Lauren: And you wanna know why? Egg donation, IVF, right? Like assisted reproductive technology, and education for teens, and access to abortion for teens. Those things played a role and we need to continue on that trajectory. I really hope it doesn’t change.
Julianna: I will say, it almost feels unfair to women that your peak in your career, your peak in your education, your peak in your fertility, all sort of coincides at the same point in your life. And so, that ability to give yourself extra time, and just extend your reproductive years is really an amazing gift.
Lauren: That’s the word for it. It is a gift. And it kills me that it’s just yet another thing that if you have this… if you have the privilege of having 15 to 20 grand lying around, or parents or grandparents, who can give that to you, then you benefit from that. Or, if you work for a big tech company that gives you that benefit.
But it’s such a small number of companies that offer it, and I hate to see someone who… there are Reddit threads about which companies offer egg freezing. That should not be the reason why somebody is choosing a job, right? And so, I just believe that there’s more we can be doing to give people that gift. And that’s where Cofertility comes in.
Julianna: Yes. I completely understand. I have personal friends, I have people in my life that have experienced fertility issues, and I also think there are people that are just choosing to wait to have children, and to begin that family planning process. It is certainly becoming, not necessarily the norm, but it is becoming more common now than before.
Lauren: Totally.
Julianna: I am curious, are there any specific demographics that Cofertility appeals to? Whether it’s the types of professions that these women pursue or the areas or fields they work in?
Lauren: One theme that we see is women in healthcare. We know that doctors are twice as likely to experience infertility as the general public. It’s wild.
They are doing more training, their education is crazy long, they’re hard on their bodies. They have student loans, and they’re stressed. And that makes sense. Right? And so, I think that women in medicine are very open-minded about, or like understanding of the risk that they face, and open-minded to the clinical procedure that they’ll have to undergo to freeze eggs.
And, they also understand you’re donating tissue. You are not… you know, it’s a very different choice when they’re looking at it clinically. And so, we definitely see a lot of women in medicine.
We see a lot of women athletes. I think that’s just another area where someone’s physical self plays a role in the length of their career. Right? And, putting children on hold is something that happens all too often for women in sports.
Julianna: Very physically demanding, too.
Lauren: Crazy physically demanding. And that’s actually one of the reasons Maria Sharapova decided to invest in Cofertility.
Julianna: That’s amazing.
Lauren: She’s the coolest.
Julianna: This brings me to another piece that I was reading about, which is the “Level the Playing Field” initiative. I would love to hear more about this. I am an ex-athlete, not currently an athlete. Nowhere in the realm of Maria Sharapova, but…
Lauren: If I played soccer in elementary school, I am a former athlete, too. But no, you’re probably actually athletic, and played in college or something.
Julianna: Club lacrosse in college.
Lauren: Okay. More than I did. Let’s put it that way. So Maria, we were put in touch with her. She’s an amazing investor, and the first couple times I met with her, I remember being completely blown away by the questions she asks, and how thoughtful she is about the business.
And, just like, quite honestly, she’s more on it than some other real VC investors, or career investors. She is amazing. And I think that her initial enthusiasm about the business really came from… there was actually an ASRM opinion piece about how egg freezing can contribute to gender equality.
This idea that if women don’t have the pressure of their biological clock, they can make decisions about their career and their life in the same way that a man could. Right?
And so, it can contribute to gender equality. And she was like, “Well, yeah. In sports especially.” Like imagine not having that looming over you with, “How quickly can I get from here to there?”, and not worrying about that one other piece of it, which is like, “When am I gonna have children?”
And so, she sort of put that bug in our ear about like, well, we should really be thinking about athletes. And then, we started to see a number of our split members come from the sports world. So, we had professional athletes applying to the split program. We had former college athletes. We had people who just had sort of devoted their twenties to sport. And who were like, okay, I wanna keep doing this, and I have this break where this is a good time for me to do that. Where they can take hormone injections, and not have it be a problem.
So, we started to see that in our own member community and population. And then, I met Alicia Montaño who runs a nonprofit that’s now called “For All Mothers”. And she is a former Olympic runner who is famous for running pregnant, like total bad**ss.
Julianna: Amazing.
Lauren: And she was so excited about what we were building, and I love what she does, and she told me that one of the biggest challenges they have is research.
And I was like, “What? That seems so easy.” And she was like, “It’s not, you’d be surprised.” And so my team and I decided to work on this with her. And Halle, my co-founder, has her Masters of Public Health. And this is very much in her wheelhouse.
So, we came up with a study, or basically research, around what are the opinions and beliefs of women in sports, and how they want to pursue motherhood. And what are the challenges they face around family building and fertility planning, and their earnings, and how does it affect their future with their contracts, or with their teams, or their leagues, and different questions like that.
And so, we put that together with our medical advisors, and then we got it out to hundreds of professional athletes.
Julianna: Wow.
Lauren: And you know, we had the help of some of our… one of our investors is very deeply, involved in the sports world, as is Next. Lance Armstrong is one of their founders.
We just got it out to different leagues and teams and just said like, “Hey, help us, help you.” Right? Like, help us get a sense of where you’re at.
And we published this data as part of our “Level the Playing Field” with Alicia and her team. And it was amazing to see that over 90% of professional athletes do feel that their careers will be impacted by their family building and fertility plans, and that they don’t feel supported by their organization. And that, you know, they don’t feel they have access to things like egg freezing.
So, that came out in February and we’ve had a number of pieces. that have come out. Recently, the WTA came out and said – the Women’s Tennis Association – said that they have new policies around fertility for their players, and that women won’t lose their rankings if they take time off for things like egg freezing or embryo freezing.
Julianna: Wow.
Lauren: And so, I’m not saying that our campaign directly was the reason that this change happened, but I think that efforts like this, and awareness, and sending that out and getting it on the radar of these organizations can help enact change and can help bring to bear any sort of policy change, or thoughtfulness around it for people.
Julianna: Maybe it wasn’t the direct cause, but I’m sure it added to the campaign, and the mindfulness around this topic.
It is interesting to me… in general, market awareness – especially for consumer services and products– is so key in the early days of anyone building in the space.
And so, a lot of what amazes me about the strategy you’ve taken, is you’ve mentioned social media influencers, you’ve mentioned famous athletes. Like this almost celebrity-led information dispersion tactic has been really effective for you all.
What do you think that is?
Lauren: Egg freezing this year was up 40% from the previous year, and that’s even with cost being the number one challenge. So egg freezing is part of the like zeitgeist, right? Like people are talking about it. You can say egg freezing and your average person will know what you’re talking about, right? It has become part of the norm.
We have people like Mindy Kaling and Jennifer Aniston and the Kardashians talking about egg freeze. They’re saying, “Do yourself a favor, freeze your eggs”, right? Like that’s what Jennifer Aniston came out and said. It’s amazing to hear that from someone like that, using their voice and their platform and the challenges that they faced to help get it on other people’s radars. I think the biggest problem is that it stops short at awareness.
And so what I think someone like Maria loves is that, we’re not just stopping at, “Hey, you should think about egg freezing.” It’s like, here’s a way to make it more accessible. And so, I think that’s what helps with these influencers, and with people who are willing to talk about it and get it out in the world.
It’s like this isn’t just… or doesn’t have to be something that only really wealthy people can afford. And so, I think taking it that one step further into access is what makes it something that’s worth talking about.
Julianna: Yeah. I think the Jennifer Aniston one, particularly, was very powerful because she talked about regret. And the, the fact that she wished she knew more back in her late twenties / early thirties when she had the power to control her own family planning.
Lauren: Yeah and she could have afforded it too.
Julianna: Yeah.
Lauren: I actually was on a panel with Naomi Watts. And she is doing amazing work on menopause right now, and perimenopause, which if I wasn’t obsessed with building fertility, I’d be obsessed with perimenopause and menopause, which I don’t know what that says about me.
Julianna: You’re passionate about women’s health.
Lauren: Yeah, I am. I can’t help it. But she told a story on this panel, where…she was there to talk about menopause, but she was like, “I just have to tell this story because Lauren’s talking about this.”
Where she was like, “I was a very successful actress in my thirties who had the means. I could have afforded to freeze my eggs. And the doctor was like, nah, you don’t need to. And I listened...and that’s one of my biggest regrets.”
Like, sure. There is a world where you may not need your frozen eggs.
Julianna: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: And I actually hope for most women…I hope for all women. Like, I hope that you never need to use these eggs.
How nice would that be? Right? If you don’t have to go through IVF to fertilize these eggs some day, I really hope that.
But, the fact that they could be there… like I meet intended parents every day who come on to the Zoom, or I meet them in person and they’re like, “If only this existed 15 years ago.” They’re like, “I wish I had frozen my eggs.” I hear the regret literally every day. Or like, “Oh my God, what a gift for these women.”
Like they are so much more excited about egg donation for themselves because they’re helping a younger woman put their eggs away for their future. So, that regret piece of it can be something that they take away for somebody else. You know?
Julianna: Mm-hmm. It could be a powerful motivator for other people too.
Lauren: Yeah.
Julianna: That is very impactful, I think. So, I haven’t talked about it yet, but I want to get into your personal founder journey. So, two questions. One, how did you meet Halle, your co-founder? And two, while you were building and founding Uber Health, you had the idea for Cofertility, and I know your journey and story is very personal. To me, it’s one of the most impactful and powerful that I’ve heard.
Lauren: Oh, wow.
Julianna: It’s really an amazing, amazing story. It’s mission alignment and perfectly syncs with your personal life. And I’m just so blown away by it. So, I’d love if you would share
Lauren: Yeah, of course. It’s funny because our marketing team has been on me to do more on social media, and I get it, “founder brand”, whatever. So, I made a reel, like a 90-second reel of why I started Cofertility and my mom called me and she’s like, “Gosh, if only we knew that eight years would fit into 90 seconds.”
Right? Like when we were living it.
Julianna: Yeah. That’s how social media is.
Lauren: Ugh, right? Like eight very long years,
Julianna: I’m sure.
Lauren: But, sure, I’ll tell you the whole story. I was at Uber. I joined Uber in 2013. I was in the first couple hundred employees there. It was the ride of a lifetime.
I saw an opportunity for Uber in the healthcare space. I started… actually, I did our first experiment in healthcare, which was on-demand flu shots where you could press a button in the app and a nurse would come to you and give you a shot.
Julianna: Wow.
Lauren: And I, through that, became Uber’s like defacto healthcare person. Like it’s very unsexy when you’re at Uber to be in healthcare.
And so I was like, “Okay, no one else cares, so I will.” Right? And then, I saw a study that came out that said millions of people miss a doctor’s appointment every year, but they don’t have access to a reliable ride. I was like, “Huh, Uber has lots of reliable rides. We got this.” And so, I put together a pitch deck for a business line called Uber Health that essentially allows healthcare organizations to request rides and deliveries on behalf of their patients.
Pitched that in 2017 to our executive leadership team, and while I was building that…we launched in 2018…. but a few months after I pitched it, I became a patient myself.
Julianna: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: I felt a pain in my side and was diagnosed with an incredibly rare abdominal disease. One of 154 people on the planet to ever get it.
I had masses growing everywhere throughout my abdomen and pelvis, and I was told that I would have to have a number of surgeries to remove the disease and that I would likely lose my ovaries in the process. I had to sign paperwork and be like, “Yes, you can take my ovaries.”
I should have been asking like, will I live? Which I did.
Julianna: You’re right. Thank God.
Lauren: But instead, I was like, “Will I be a mom someday?” I just like… that’s something I always wanted.
Julianna: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: And they said… actually one doctor was like, “Maybe you’ll be a unicorn.” Like, well, that’s comforting… Not so much. And another one was like, “Well, if all goes well with your surgeries, egg donation might be your best bet.”
Julianna: Okay.
Lauren: And I wasn’t ready to have kids. I had just started dating my now husband – who I can now hear upstairs – but I wanted to know everything I could about egg donation. I like… I’m a planner, so I wanted to know all the things, and I was shocked by what I saw.
I could not believe how outdated it was, how antiquated it was. This idea of cash compensation was very off-putting to me. I was like, “Oh, this is cringe.” I wanted nothing to do with it. I didn’t like that it was anonymous. I just didn’t like anything about it.
My big sister had just had her second kid, and I was telling her all this and she was like, “Lauren, I would give my left arm for you to be a mom someday.”
And she’s left-handed, so I was like, “That’s a big deal.”
Julianna: Wow.
Lauren: And she decided to freeze her eggs and donate them to me, in case I needed them someday. And so, she did that ahead of my surgery, so that if I woke up and had no ovaries, at least I would know those were there. And she was 34 at the time, so the doctor was like, “Let’s do it now.”
And I ended up having three surgeries. Miraculously, did not lose my ovaries, and still amazing that that’s the case. But, I did have the gift of frozen eggs. So, I got to then make decisions about my career and my relationship without the pressure of my biological clock. And ultimately, I was able to have my kids without using my sister’s eggs, which is still like a total miracle.
But, the minute I gave birth to my daughter. Who, when I met you, she was six months old. Now, she just turned four. I knew I needed to build something in this space. I just like… I had been at Uber for eight years, and I just knew that the only thing… if I wasn’t going to be spending my entire day with her all day… which like no shame in that game, I just didn’t want that for myself. I wanted to help other people have the same miracle feeling that I had.
And so, it turned out I am a unicorn, and now I wear my unicorn ring.
Julianna: Love it.
Lauren: But, I just wanted to build something in this space, and so you asked how I met Halle. What’s interesting is that when I was at Uber building Uber Health, there were very few young women building in digital health.
And Halle had started Rock Health, which was like the first digital health one before digital health was cool. And I like to tell her, she made digital health cool.
Julianna: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: We knew of each other from that world. Like we had met at conferences and sort of just like, had our eye on each other. Like, yeah, she’s doing it. You know, like more of that.
And we had talked a couple times, and followed each other on Instagram, and someone had told her that I was thinking about building something. I don’t know exactly how this unfolded, but I got a DM from her on Instagram that said, “How’s fundraising going?”
And I was like, “I am not… I’m not fundraising.” Like, I don’t even have an idea, but if any of your portfolio companies are hiring, let me know.
Because I just gave notice at Uber, like I didn’t put it on LinkedIn, didn’t put it on Instagram. I don’t know how she… yeah, whatever. So, she was like, “You’re on the market?”
I was like, “Yes.” She’s like, “What’s your phone number?” And she called me, and I remember coming down the stairs and telling my husband, “Oh my god. Halle Tecco is calling me right now.” And I was actually standing in this very room, when on the phone she explained to me egg sharing. And we did not invent the idea of egg sharing.
It happens in small pockets all over the world. Like this clinic will offer, you know, freeze your eggs for free when you donate half of them, or do a cycle, donate a cycle, give us like.. whatever. She was like, “That concept is brilliant, but hasn’t become the future of egg donation yet because no one has done it at scale.”
It needs to happen at scale for there to be enough choice. For intended parents to find what they’re looking for in a donor because an intended parent wants a donor that’s as unique as they are.
Julianna: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: And I remember… I literally was standing right where I’m sitting right now – which is the craziest part – that I just was like, “This is it.” Like “This. Is. It.” And Halle didn’t even know that my sister had donated eggs to me.
Julianna: Wow.
Lauren: And so, when I told her that, she was like, “Oh my God. Let’s do this together.” I was like, “What?” She was like, “You’re gonna be the CEO, I’ll be the chair, and we’ll figure it out.”
The rest is history
Julianna: That is incredible. I mean, so insane. But also, feels like it was meant to be.
Lauren: That’s the universe.
Julianna: Yeah.
Lauren: I very much believe in it.
Julianna: I feel like this is… this was your calling, so to speak.
Lauren: Oh, totally.
Julianna: As difficult as I’m sure the experiences you went to were.
Lauren: I recently read the book Worthy by Jamie Kern Lima, and she talks about… she says, “Our setbacks are our setups.” And I read that, and I was like, “Well, isn’t that the truth?”
Like, for me, it really is. You know? And I’m so lucky that I found an amazing doctor who has been my partner in my own journey. Who knew how much I wanted to have kids, and he loves Cofertility. He’s so excited about what has come from this.
But yeah, I mean, I think that… I very much believe that founders have to be deeply obsessed with the problem they’re trying to solve more than anything. And I think when you go through something, it’s the only way to deeply feel the problem.
Julianna: I totally agree. I think yours is even a more extreme, acute case of that. Where it’s like.. you lived it, which is so rare.
You can immerse yourself in something intentionally, or it can just happen by chance. And I think your ability to then change your perspective through your experience, and kind of create this opportunity for other women and intended parents, is so incredible.
Lauren: Well, it even went further. So, after I had my oldest Eden, I wanted to have a second baby, and I had a harder time getting pregnant, and staying pregnant this time.
And that’s called secondary infertility. And a lot of our intended parents come to us because they’re experiencing secondary infertility. And I made the decision to go through IVF. And so, while building Cofertility, I went through IVF. So, this even went further, right? Another unintended… hello universe.
Thankfully, I was able to ultimately, from one embryo, conceive, and now I have the second child. But, I got to feel it even more. Of like, what does it feel like to give yourself those injections, and what does the waiting feel like?
Frankly, for me, the wait, that’s the hardest part. But, now I can understand our intended parents even more than I ever imagined.
Julianna: Yeah. I think that’s even more rare. You know the people you’re working with, the motivation and problems, deeply.
Lauren: Yeah. And someday, I’ll go through menopause, and then I will have to then…
Julianna: You’ll have to move on to the next company
Lauren: A lot of smart people are building in menopause, so…
Julianna: That is just so incredible. It does seem like, you and Halle kind of just… stars aligned… right timing for both of you…
Lauren: Yeah. She is unlike anyone I’ve ever known. She just can like zoom in and zoom out on healthcare, and is so obsessed with changing the healthcare landscape, and I feel lucky to do this with her, and learn from her, and we’re, you know… we complement each other.
Julianna: Yeah. Well kindred spirits for sure because it sounds like you also are laser focused on changing the status quo, changing the healthcare available to women and intended parents. So, that’s an amazing alignment of you two as well.
Lauren: Yeah. It’s worked out for us.
Julianna: Is there anything, now that you’ve been doing this for a couple years… I guess two things – is there anything that you wish you had known, and if you had known when you started the business, you would change?
Lauren: I think there will always be “shoulda, woulda, coulda’s”, right? Like there will always be things that like, “Oh, I wish we had made a different choice about… this vendor, or I wish we made a different choice about that part of our strategy, or I wish we course-corrected sooner.” Right? I think so much of what my role is, is knowing the right amount of time to spend money and resources on what.
So, there are definitely… I can pinpoint probably five off the top of my head. I wish we spent this money differently in this way. And I think the bigger challenge, is getting over it, and course correcting quickly. And so, I often work with myself, and I now have a coach. We talk a lot about how long do you feel the feelings of the wrong choice?
And, how quickly can we… I do this with my team. I’m like, “I don’t care whose fault it was. Let’s document what happened. Let’s figure out… let’s fix it really fast, and then we can figure out how to make sure that we never do that again.” And so, there’s a lot of that. And I think that the “How long does it take you to forgive yourself?” is the bigger question.
So that’s really… I think I’ve come a long way in my ability to course-correct and move on.
Julianna: Mm-hmm and do it quickly. Okay, so I know we’re coming up on time. But, this is an amazing conversation.
I like to end with… do you have any controversial beliefs or hot takes that are unique to you and your perspective on things? It could be about the business, it could be about life in general.
Lauren: I think that we touched on it a little bit. But, I think falling in love with the problem is the best thing you can do before choosing a new job, or deciding to start a company, or deciding to take any professional leap. And I think that the people who instead are falling in love with the solution, are making a really big mistake.
Julianna: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: And I think that when you get so attached to a solution, or married to a solution, or like pumped or hot on a solution, you’re setting yourself up to be really inflexible, and you’re setting yourself up for disappointment when ultimately the path will most likely change.
Right? Like the, “How you get there, is never gonna look the way you thought it was gonna look.” But, if instead, you’re like super laser focused on “I don’t care what the answer is, but we just have to solve the problem.” Then you will pleasantly surprise yourself, and find much more contentment in “the how”.
Julianna: I love that. I think that’s really important advice. I’m going to slip in one more question.
Lauren: Yeah.
Julianna: When you’re pitching VCs… you also just raised a Series A, so congratulations. That’s a huge accomplishment, especially in this current fundraising environment… and for a non-AI business.
Lauren: Yes. And to do it during an election.
Julianna: Yes.
Lauren: Where reproductive rights are like straight up on the ballot.
Julianna: Yes, absolutely. An added difficulty, for sure.
Lauren: Yeah.
Julianna: Do you have any advice for founders on pitching VCs? Or, was there anything that worked particularly well for you? First question. And then, on top of that, are you noticing any gender divide when you’re pitching VCs? Like, do you notice that female or male VCs understand the pitch, and the problem, more acutely than the other?
Lauren: It’s interesting. I think for our seed round in 2021, we definitely felt women were very much understanding of what we were doing. It was a very quick like, “get it” factor. I think that this most recent round, is less so about women or men. I think it was more if somebody could understand the challenges that people go through to grow their family.
And I think even in the last three years, the cultural awareness around fertility challenges, and same sex couples growing their family, and things like that, has changed. The conversation around third party reproduction has changed. Right? Surrogacy and people just like seeing it, is much more common.
And so, I felt that a lot of them – the male VCs – were on it, and understanding. And, you know, Next is a great example of that. Both Lance, and Jordan, one of the partners there, were like, “Well, yeah.” Like literally, the question was “Well, how is this not what a donation is?” They were very understanding.
Not every fund is that way, and so I think the advice that I would give… one of my other regrets is not trusting my gut. Now there are times where I’m like, eh… this is not a “full body yes”. So, I’m not gonna do it.
I think with investors you can sense if they get it in the first conversation. And if they don’t get it in the first conversation, it’s gonna be too long for them to get it. And I would just like, cut your losses and move on. But, the ones who get it, you’ll feel it and stick with them.
I think the other thing that I learned throughout this process is the later-stage fundraising is harder, in that there’s more data and evidence within your business. So there’s a lot more for them to ask questions about. And being really prepared to have all of that information at the ready will make the process go faster.
But, if you’re noticing like, “Huh, multiple investors have asked us about like… what would a Trump presidency mean to Cofertility’s business?” Like we wrote a memo that was like, here’s two pages on like exactly what a Trump presidency would mean for Cofertility. And so, the minute I got asked that question, rather than spend… it’s a meaty question, right? So, rather than spend 15 minutes of my 30-minute meeting with this investor, answering that question, I would say, “I actually prepped a memo on this, that I can send to you following the call.”
But like, we’re really confident that a Trump presidency could actually ultimately be, not a bad thing. And right after the meeting, I would be like, “Here’s that memo you asked for.” And investors actually, I think, preferred that because it meant that they didn’t have to actually digest it, and write it all down, and understand it enough to go tell their partners.
It meant that they could be like, “Oh, it’s all right here. I can now distill two pages. I can either send around those two pages with my memo, or I can distill those two pages into a paragraph, and feel really good about it because I have it right in front of me.
Julianna: Mm-hmm.
Lauren: So, I hate to say this to you, but the more I could do their job for them, the better things went.
Julianna: I was gonna say that. I’m an investor, but I know the archetype. Doing some of the work is helpful. It also shows that you’ve thought about that question before it’s even been asked, which is a great thing to see as an investor because it’s like, you want that founder who has thought about every single angle of the problem they’re solving.
Lauren: Right. Like, absolutely not the first time I’ve thought about what this presidency would mean, and so it just shows that. Totally agree.
Julianna: Of course. So, I think that’s a great note to end on. Fantastic advice, so much fun talking to you today, as always. And thank you again for hosting me.
Lauren: I’m happy to.